Answering Recent Comments – Part I

Because people write comments on old posts, sometimes found on search engine photos, other internet sites and articles, they do not immediately show up in this website’s current or near current posts, and since I have no way of answering these comments directly unless I know about them, I sometimes do searches to see if such exist. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I found a whole bunch, so I am posting them  here with my responses. If the reader has anything more they want to add, they can respond through the email posted on the website, or make a comment on the most current post. If any other reader has made a comment that I have missed, please feel free to make it again so it can be responded to—thank you.

Comment #1: "Where are you getting your information? You have provided no citations of anything either in the scriptures or in scientific publications as justification for this route, and that worries me greatly, especially considering the numerous gaping holes in it. There is no evidence in the Book of Ether of travelling in any particular direction arriving in the valley of Nimrod. In fact, I would say that the phrase "Where never there had been man" in Ether 2:5 negates any notion that they followed the Tigris river downstream, as that area was populated. It seems that you're making a lot of blind conjectures here and shouldn't be publishing it as fact, especially since you make it fit so nicely with Lehi's journey, a correlation for which there is no Book of Mormon evidence. More likely they continued in another direction entirely before arriving at an ocean. It's especially insulting when you consider that unlike Nephi's sailing ship, the Jaredites' barges relied on wind and ocean currents." Bret Terry.

Response. In a post the small size used on this website blog, it is difficult to give all the background information available and used to develop the post. I would suggest you read the first half (12 chapters, 214 pages with 511 references, plus 13 appendices of 101 pages with references) of the book Who Really Settled Mesoamerica? Which covers the story of the Jaredites, from Mesopotamia to the Land of Promise. As for your specific area of disagreement: 1) “There is no evidence in the Book of Ether of traveling in any particular direction arriving in the valley of Nimrod.” Perhaps you would like to read Ether 1:42, which states: “…thou shalt go at the head of them down into the valley which is northward…” which does state in which direction Jared and his brother and their friends traveled to get to the valley of Nimrod which, in Ether 2:1, also states: “…went down into the valley which was northward, (and the name of the valley was Nimrod, being called after the mighty hunter).” And just for clarification sake, the area north of where Jared and his brother would have lived is extremely flat with one original valley that is now a man-made lake;

2) “In fact, I would say that the phrase "Where never there had been man" in Ether 2:5…”

Response: This is really a misunderstanding on your part. The Lord is talking about after the Jaredites get to the Valley of Nimrod, he will lead them—the Valley of Nimrod and the trip to the Land of Promise is not the area “where man had never been.” The Lord states: “And there will I meet thee, and I will go before thee into a land which is choice above all the lands of the earth” (Ether 1:42) which is in the Land of Promise. As he goes on to tell the Brother of Jared, “And there will I bless thee and thy seed, and raise up unto me of thy seed, and the seed of thy brother, and they who shall go with thee, a great nation. And there shall be none greater than the nation I will raise up unto me of thy seed” (Ether 1:43). Obviously, the great nation would be raised in the Land of Promise—which had been kept from the knowledge of all since the Flood (Ether 13:2). Stated differently, there is no comment in Ether about the trip from the Valley of Nimrod to the Land of Promise about being where “never had man been.” Not until they reached the Land of Promise, is that comment fulfilled.

3) “Ether 2:5 negates any notion that they followed the Tigris river downstream, as that area was populated.”

Response: They went northward (actually northwest) into the Valley of Nimrod, from there they went south moving between the Tigris River and the Zagros Mountains of Iran. This is a very wide area, and not populated at that time and currently barely populated  (two major cities today; with Highway 13 running from Khanaqin to Basrah, a distance of nearly 300 miles with only the village of Mandali in between where highway 82 joins 13; and of course, the area of Basrah was part of the Mesopotamia Marshlands at the time we’re talking about with the huge wetlands that today are only a small portion of what they were anciently [and smaller still since Saddam Hussein drained them]). Obviously, the Jaredites would not have moved along the Tigris River itself, but that population area was very narrow, extending only a mile or so eastward from the river (desert, no water, no area for living, farming, etc.) since the population mostly lived between the rivers in that period of time.

4) “It seems that you're making a lot of blind conjectures here and shouldn't be publishing it as fact”

Response: Actually, there can be no “facts” that are not definitely stated in scripture—scientific “fact” is seldom fact. So any writing about Book of Mormon Land of Promise location is a matter of putting together the scriptural record with understanding, reasoning, and knowledge—what the Lord directs us to do (D&C 50:10-12). However, I make no claim in any of my writing about this subject that the geography is “fact.” Only that it answers the questions one might have about the matter.

5) “you make it fit so nicely with Lehi's journey, a correlation for which there is no Book of Mormon evidence.”

Response: I disagree. The information about the plants, fruit, bees and honey Nephi describes about the area of Bountiful (1 Nephi 17:5-6) meets the criteria of a previous group living there where no historical group is known to have been. And Nephi’s comment “all these things were prepared by the Lord” for their benefit tends to suggest that the Jaredites were there since they were directed by the Lord in their travels, and they brought seed of every kind (Ether 1:41), and honey bees with them (Ether 2:3)—which were not indigenous to the area of Bountiful, yet somehow existed there when Lehi arrived, though no one had lived in that area since the Flood.

6) “More likely they continued in another direction entirely before arriving at an ocean.”

Response: If you were to read the book I mentioned above, you would see every other route (north east or west) out of Mesopotamia would not have been possible to the Jaredites—one should know about the topography of the world before making such a suggestion. Others have made such claims merely because a map shows a likely route; however, the actual topography precludes it, which is thoroughly documented in the book mentioned, including testimonials of others who have tried an eastern route and failed.

7) “It's especially insulting when you consider that unlike Nephi's sailing ship, the Jaredites' barges relied on wind and ocean currents.”

Response: Actually, Nephi’s sailing ship was “driven forth before the wind” and relied totally on winds and currents. As for the Jaredites, it can only be insulting to those who have studied the winds and currents so thoroughly as has been done in the first three books mentioned on this site, and written about them in several posts. The route suggested is actually the only wind and current route that could have reached the Western Hemisphere, and to reject it or think otherwise is merely a lack of knowledge on the subject.

8) You asked in apparent sarcasm, “Where am I getting this information?” I answer simply, read the books that I have written about all of this, compete with more references than you will ever find on this subject—well over 2000. You may not agree with the conclusions stated, and that is your prerogative, but you will see that they are not made capriciously as are your criticisms. The rationale for each of these points and numerous others are consistent with the Book of Mormon, with geography now and in the past, with science, and with reason far more than anything else you will find written about the location of the Land of Promise.

(See the next post, “Answering Recent Comments – Part II,” for more comments made about different posts on this website)